Conversion Rate Optimization Made Fun (Navah Hopkins and Jason Barnard)

Navah Hopkins talks with Jason Barnard about conversion rate optimization

Navah Hopkins is the Director of Paid Media at Justuno, and has been involved in the digital marketing industry since 2008. She’s a serial entrepreneur, SEO/SEM philosopher, content strategist, and a frequent contributor to SEJ, SEMrush, and WordStream blogs/webinars.

Conversion Rate Optimization is fun when you consider the story of how your customer found you, what their motivations are and what they value.

Navah explains color theory, how to enhance your on-page copy for CRO, the psychology behind upsell offers, and what makes the conversion process tick.

She has some of the most delightful and fascinating analogies to explain some key concepts. A PPC Sith – referencing Star Wars – meaning being open to change and evolve, by taking a pragmatic approach to be successful and master the force, or in this case – your audience. You’ll also get a brilliant explanation of how to look at your customer journey, with the movie Hogfather used as the analogy.

In partnership with Wordlift

What you’ll learn from Navah Hopkins

  • 00:00 Navah Hopkins with Jason Barnard
  • 01:00 Navah’s Brand SERP
  • 02:42 Conversion Rate Optimization Made Fun
  • 04:31 Colour Theory for On-Page CRO
  • 10:12 Using “You” in your copywriting for better CRO
  • 14:09 The psychology of upsell offers in On-Page CRO
  • 15:59 CRO as more than just a means to justify PPC cost
  • 18:26 The philosophy behind the PPC Sith
  • 20:45 Finding the balance for tweaking PPC campaigns
  • 24:10 The customer’s journey from search to conversion
  • 28:49 What do the upcoming third-party cookie changes mean for the future of e-commerce?
  • 31:17 Managing your email list
  • 34:04 The value of sympathy in CRO


Jason Barnard has over 2 decades of experience in digital marketing.

He currently teaches Brand SERP optimisation to students at and writes regularly for leading marketing publications such as Search Engine Journal, SEMrush, OnCrawl, Searchmetrics as well as appearing regularly on digital marketing webinars and speaking at major conferences around the world such as BrightonSEO, PubCon, SMX London, YoastCon.